Please read the task below and post your responses using the comments function. Your response should be:
- Concise
- Coherent
In Act 1 Scene 1, Duke Theseus tells Hermia to comply with her father's wishes, saying
'To you your father should be as a god.'
In your opinion, is Theseus right? Why or why not?
Hi Miss Annisa I'm Sirong from 4BN and I was wondering if I got to the wrong page?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I feel that Theseus is not right. While it is true that in that age men are seen as superior beings over females, I believe that Hermia should stand up for herself and be different. God is what we call a perfect being whereas Egeus is not. He is but a human being that makes mistakes, making him but on the same level as anyone else. Hermia has a will of her own and should have the right to decide who to spend the rest of her life with.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Egeus as a father does not have the right to force her into marriage with a man she does not feel for. He has the right to try and convince her that Demetrius is a better man but not demand that she gives him her hand in marriage as he is not the one who would be spending the rest of his life with Demetrius. If Egeus's word is absolute to Hermia, there would be no point in her living as she would be nothing but a puppet with no right to live the way she wants to, making her life nothing but a misery. God does not force His people into doing things, even though that choice may be a foolish one. Hence this would give Egeus even less a reason to be seen as a God by Hermia. I believe that as a human being one should strive to be the perfect being like how God is, and so Egeus should give Hermia a choice to decide for herself. Therefore, Egeus is not as flawless nor wise as God himself, hence I feel that Theseus is wrong.
Tomomi, 3CR
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent. In their society then, women were considered to be inferior to men. They had no say in many things. We can see this from when Egeus said of Hermia "she is mine, I may dispose of her". Women at that time were seen as "property" of men. Therefore, I can understand Theseus' mindset when he told Hermia that "To you your father should be as a god." Such was the typical mindset of the people then.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I feel that Hermia should stand up to her father's decision of who she is to marry as at the end of the day, it is still her happiness that is in question. She should have a chance to choose whom she wishes to marry. Egeus is not a god but a human being which makes mistakes. In this case I feel that he is making a mistake by not listening to Hermia's reason for choosing Lysander over Demetrius, and rashly making an unreasonable demand for Hermia to marry a man she loves not. As a father, Egeus should be there to nurture and guide his child through life, not force his decisions onto his child. He is not fufilling the role of a father to Hermia. If to Hermia, Egeus' word is law, then what is the whole point of her existance? To be a puppet to Egeus? Her life would be meaningless and she will suffer. In life we make our own decisions. Our parents are there to guide us, so is God. They do not force decisions upon us.
Therefore in conclusion, I find Theseus' opinion wrong. Egeus is not a god to Hermia, but a father. They should change their mindset of women being inferior to men. Hermia has her own feelings and opinions. They should not disregard them and give Hermia a chance to decide who she wishes to be with for the rest of her life.
Puah Xinyi 3JT
I feel that Thesus is actually right, taking into consideration his enviroment at that time. During his time,women were deemed to be of a weaker sex as compared to a men and that their 'mission' in live is to serve and obey man. Hermia had no husband at that time so according to their culture, her father was of control to her life and thus he had the rights to actually decide who Hermia should marry. This decision could be made purely based on the father liking and the daughter,Hermia, had no rights to object even if the father demanded her to marry a man which she hated to the core.
ReplyDeleteOf course , such thinking is deemed as 'unreasonable' in current society and that we would feel that egeus and thesus is completely in the wrong. However,taking into consideration of the society that time,egeus and thesus would have been correct even if the issue was brought up to the public. And although we now feel that Hermia should have her own rights as to who she wants to marry,this custom was not the right way in the past.
I feel that shakespeare was trying to show the slow change in the society thinking when he wrote the play regarding the lovers not able to be together due the custom. I feel that he thinks the custom is not correct and that a change is needed. I would agree to his thinking if that was so because i feel that no one should actually be in control of another person's life. If anyone's life was controlled by another, it would make him/her feel of utter uselessness and the possible talent that could have been hidden in him/her would never been realised. Shakespeare wrote this play during the reign of queen elizabeth the first and what he was trying to show could be that women was also capable of what men could do.
In conclusion, i feel that men and women should be of equal status and that thesus opinion is wrong according to our custom now but at his time, i would consider him correct.
-3jt, GengFa
In my opinion, Theseus is not right as Hermia already made her point clear about who is going to marry. Theseus would rather send her to death or a nunnery than just let her have a choice of who she is going to marry.
ReplyDeleteI felt that Theseus was not right as he told Hermia to comply with her father's wishes saying " To you your father should be as a god ". In my opinion, a daughter should be loved and her happiness should be placed above everything, instead Egeus forces his daughter to marry Demetrius, a man who often changes his mind of who he likes.
Even though during Theseus's time women should obey everything men say, Hermia made a strong point with sufficient reason and Hermia stood her ground through the entire argument showing her determination.
In conclusion, i felt that although Theseus was suppose to be right in his time, i felt that Theseus did not give a clear thought in making the decision and made it rashly. Hence, i felt that Theseus was not right.
3JUSTICE , Lim Qi Hui Janice
Theseus is wrong to say this.
ReplyDeleteIn the society then, females were supposed to listen to their father or husband, having no say in major decisions, even when it concerned their future. They were supposed to hold the men in respect, even when they did not agree, women were not supposed to voice out their opinions. Females were thought to be weak and unable to defend for themselves, and therefore the “men are greater and more powerful” thinking. Had Hermia been a dumb, empty-headed girl, Theseus had every right to force her to believing that Egeus was a god, as his decision would be better for her.
However, Hermia does not seem to be a rash person to me. The way her character is portrayed does not give you the impression of a blissfully and blindly in love, dumb, weak, innocent, unable-to-stand up-for-herself young maiden. Hermia is every bit the young woman who will fight for her rights, the young girl who does not want to be controlled, the one who will fight for her freedom fiercely. She knows what she wants and will not have anything lesser.If Hermia wants to have everything that is right for her in her opinion, then chances are that Hermia’s choice of Lysander over Demetrius is likely to be correct.
In this case, Theseus is wrong to say that Hermia should follow Egeus’ decision blindly, like an animal led into the slaughter house. Even if the man thought that the pig would be better off as bacon, it does not mean that the pig would like to be salted, smoked, cured and sliced up, served nicely on a platter. Similarly, Hermia has her own rights, no woman wants to spend the rest of her life with a man that she cannot love and will never love, and Hermia should not be forced into marriage with Demetrius, but be allowed to make her own choice.
Tan Yi Xin (23) Secondary Three Courage 2010
I think it is not right for Thesues to say so.Though it is Egeus who gave Hermia life,it does not mean he should restrain everything including her emotion and happiness.
ReplyDeleteThesues himself fell in love with Hyppolita with freedom.They attached to a courtship by themselves rather than be forced by others.That means people can make their own choices in choosing their spouse according to Thesues's marriage.
Parents are not always right.Especially when his order is with personal purpose and selfishness.His father wanted Hermia to marry Demetrius because he is nobly descended and euipped with rich possessions and also highly regarded.
What is more,love is based on freedom and individual's emotion and choice.It has nothing to do with the third person."One would pull down ten temples rather than a marriage."This is an old saying in China.It shows that how inportant it was to respect a pair of lover and their own choices.We cannot cheat our feelings to marry one we do not love.This is one of the topic Shakespeare wanted to convey in the novel.
In one word,though at that time,father was dominant in family and others in the family should listen to him.At the point of marriage ,it should not be restriceted by any other even deity.
Man Qini(18) Sec 3BN
In my opinion, Theseus is right. After all, Theseus and Egues wanted Hermia to benefit from the marriage. They wanted her to lead a happier life as they put trust in that man. Although it might not be the man whom she likes, but I believe that she will come to like him after some time and let go of Lysander. Back then, the role of the father is to make decisions for his daughters and they had no say in who they are going to be with. However, they have the right to remain single and be sent to a nunnery. At that time, being a nun is the same as being imprisoned. I would consider it as more of a threat than freedom of choice. But I believe Egeus wanted the best for her daughter, otherwise, he would not go into so much trouble, insisting on the marriage with Demetrius. He may be cruel and unreasonable to Hermia as it appears, that is probably because he did not know how to express his emotions and his true intentions. Which father on earth would want to hurt his own daughter?
ReplyDeleteBringing God back to the subject, I define God as the Supreme Being and as humans, we have to listen and obey God as it is. Likewise, over here, Hermia’s father is being described as a God. And as a daughter, Hermia should agree to the decisions made by Egeus. She should be satisfied with the arrangements as Demetrius is a worthy gentleman. In conclusion, I feel that Hermia should comply with her father’s wishes and to Hermia, Egeus should be treated as a god.
Kenneth Lee ( 23 ) Sec 3JT
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think that Theseus is right to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone is compared to a god, he should be respected,people should obey him and he has the power to do whatever he likes.
Theseus is right in the way that,Egeus is the father of Hermia.As stated in the Elizabethan women passage,If women were single,their fathers were expected to take care of them,and women always needed to be taken care of.Egeus as her father has to take up the responsibility of taking care of her.Egues has been taking care and nurturing her for many many years,that alone,deserves to be respected by Hermia and she actually has to obey Egeus as her father.As quoted for the book,Hermia was a property to Egeus " As she is mine,I may dispose of her".As his property,Egeus should have the right to anything he wants to or for her.As such,Egeus is compared to that of a god.He can do anything he wants to his daughter even forcing her into marriage.If Egeus is a god to Hermia,she has to obey him or she would have to face consequences to die"or to her death"Because of whatever Egeus has done for Hermia all these years,he deserves to be called a god in the view of Hermia.
However,what Theseus is wrong about is,even if it is in the past or the present,women should have the right and say in her own happiness,no one can help her decide it.In the book,Hermia loves Lysander but is forced to marry Demetrius,a man she does not love.Even as a god,Egeus does not have the right to FORCE her into marriage.Being a god,he should be able to manipulate people,however this way of comparison is wrong.Logically speaking,Egeus is not a god but a human being and human being makes mistakes.He may have misjudged Demetrius into a nice and worthy man of his daughter but perhaps,he may not love and take care of Hermia after marriage.Just because of Egeus mistakes she has to live a meaningless,unhappy life. In the past,there was no such thing as a divorce.Even so,Hermia should have the right to marry a man she loves and loves her back,instead of someone she doesnt and suffer for the rest of her lives.She should have the right to object her father,and not obey her father just this once,because her future depended on this decision.
In conclusion,I strongly believe that Theseus is wrong to have said that Egeus is a god because as a woman,Hermia, should have her own choice in who she wants to marry.
Tan Yue Xuan Rochelle(21)
3 BN
I feel that Theseus is wrong.As a father, Egeus should give Hermia a chance to choose who she want to be with since she has already grown up.A forced marriage between Hermia and Demetrius would only give Hermia unhappiness for the rest of her life.Furthermore, Egeus mentioned that he may dispose of Hermia which shall be to Demetrius or to her death according to their law.It is obvious he did not care about Hermia's welfare and treats her like rubbish which he can dispose anytime he wants. Thus, Hermia should not treat Egeus like a god.
ReplyDeleteYip Boee(17) 3 Jt
I do not think that Theseus was right. Although it was Egeus who gave her everything, her life,beauty and status, he does not have the right to decide for Hermia her marriage.
ReplyDeleteGod is a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent originator and ruler of the universe, and worshiped by people. Although it is only right that Hermia showed him a certain amount of respect but 'worship' is not the word. Egeus is her benefactor, one who raised her from a child, but not her God.
Hermia is in love with Lysander, not Dementrius. she is right to stand up for her belief, belief that she wants to spend the rest of life with Lysander. In the Elizabethan society, women had no say, even if it concerned their happiness and future. They were beaten into obedience to listen to their father or husband. Then, Hermia must have been taught this way too. So why didn't she listen to her father and marry Dementrius? It was because she knew she was right, she was a strong and determined young lady who would hold firmly her love for Lysander.
It is quoted from Egeus, "As she is mine, I may dispose of her" Even as her father, he does not have the right to label her as his property to 'sell' to the person of his choice, because this way, her father would be ruining her future.
A women at that time depended most heavily on men in the family, first her father, then her husband after she married. In this case, she had to choose a person she could rely on for the rest of her life.
As her father, Egeus should protect Hermia from harm instead of pushing her straight into a world of sufferings. He should know that Dementrius is not a worthy man of Hermia's hand in marriage because of his inconsistency in women. Before Hermia's arrival, he doted on Helena. If Egeus really was her god, He should choose someone who cared for her, someone whom she loved and loved her back.
In conclusion I believe that Theseus was not right to say that "To you your father should be as God" because a father is one you would gratify, not worship.
- 3BN, Aileen Fu
I agree with Thesus' statement to a small extent. God in this context is described as the one who gives life and shapes lives for the better, or simply, the Creator. As Egeus has given life to Hermia and helped nurture her to what she is today, Thesus feels that she should treat her father with utmost respect as he is similar to her creator.
ReplyDeleteHowever, a god does not force his followers to follow his wishes or be condemmed to death or nunnery, he guides them, and continues to guide them even if they go against his wishes. Therefore, for Egeus to be viewed as a god, he must first have the virtue of one.
In Elizabethan times, women were considered to be the weaker sex. Therefore it is understandable why Thesus and Egeus had such views about Hermia having to listen to Egeus without fail.
However, Hermia is old enough to make responsible decisions in the best of her own interests and her father should be the one to guide her, not force her. He should trust her to have the ability to make rational decisions and not manipulate her like his own property.
He could be doing his because he thinks it is in the best interests of his daughter, but has he stopped to ask himself, if she will be happy with Demetrius, or he himself is the one that will be happy if they are together.
Therefore, I conclude that Thesus' view may be acceptable and understandable in his time, but in modern society the condept of women being the weaker sex has long been eliminated and therefore, no daughter should have to treat her father's word as law, as long as she believes it is not in her best interests.
Leong Kah Mun, 3JT.
I feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent. During that era he was living in, women were considered a weaker sex, and therefore more inferior compared to the men. The men were mostly the ones that get to decide, not the women themselves, like in the book whereby Egeus decides who Hermia is to marry. It seems that women could not decide for themselves, and that men should decide everything for her since they were more powerful and has more authority. Hence, it was understandable that Theseus told her ‘To you your father should be as a god’, since Hermia was considered a ‘property’ of Egeus. More over, Egeus was his father and Hermia needed to treat him with the utmost respect a father needs.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I feel that Hermia should still stand up for herself, and be given a chance to decide things on her own. She was also a human being, capable of thinking and fending for herself. I believe that every living being has the freedom to decide, and not follow someone’s order blindly just because that person was someone who was ‘stronger’ and has more ‘authority’. Moreover, the matters about marriage centers around her, and she has more right than anymore to decide on whom she was to marry. Her happiness was at stake, and a wrong choice could only lead to sadness and despair for her.
Furthermore, Egeus is a human being, not a god. He is a human being who makes mistakes and is not perfect. Since all human beings make mistakes, I believe that he had acted hastily during Act 1 Scene 1. I feel that Egeus had taken this matter about Hermia before Theseus was because of his own anger, and that he had not think carefully about the whole matter. He was just angered by Hermia’s sudden disobedience and decides that Lysander was to blame. As a father, I believed that he should be more mature, instead of letting his anger get to his head. He should have listened to Hermia’s choice first, before deciding whom she was to marry. If Egeus really cared and loved Hermia, he would not have forced his decisions upon her and try to force her to marry Demetrius with the Athenian law. It was as though he was trying to control every aspect of Hermia’s life, and that whatever he decides, she should follow and not questioned or disobey him.
I believe that every single parent are there to nurture and guide their child on the paths they want, and give their own wise advices when the child needs them. The parents should not try to control their child’s life, for they have to understand that the child is a living human being, a human with his own mindset and thoughts. Egeus was a parent himself, and should have understood this better than anyone and yet he still force Hermia to marry Demetrius. Everyone’s beliefs and choices are different; the parents cannot force their own beliefs on the child. Even if the parents think that it was for the best, their child are still not some machine that would do as what they want. They each have their own individual goals and aspects in their lifes, and if the parents were to destroy these precious goals, the child would really become a machine, an empty cask. And when that time came and the parents had regretted their choice, would their regret bring back their child?
Hence, in conclusion, I only find Theseus’s opinions right to a certain extent. Yes, Egeus is to be respected, but not treated like a god for he is not one. Hermia should be given a choice in the matter, for it concerns her and she has her own thoughts and emotions. Everyone’s opinions and choices are valuable, even Egeues for he may have really thought of what was the best for Hermia. But I believe that Hermia still has the last words in the whole matter, for if I was Hermia, I would really try to stand up for myself, since marriage is not a matter to be taken lightly. It would decide who I would live the rest of my life with, and I would not want to make a decision that will let me regret it forever.
Lim Xin Hui 3JT
Personally I think that Theseus is not right.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I think that this is a domestic affair that should not involve a third party. Since Theseus is an outsider, he should not interfere with the matter at all. Because he does not fully understand how Hermia and Egeus feel.
Secondly, I think that Hermia has the right to choose her own happiness, thus, no one, even the god, can control her and force her to abide by him. Everyone has their own human rights, thus they can choose what they really want.
Thirdly, I think that god is someone who wants the best for his people. When Theseus refer Egeus to god, he means that whatever Egeus is doing is for Hermia's good. However, he cannot guarantee and assume that Hermia will be happy when she and Demetrius get marry. Demetrius who loves Hermia truly will not want her to be sad and seeing her unhappy everyday he will also be sad. Thus, if Hermia is forced to obey her father's words, the four parties (Lysander, Demetrius, Helena and Hermia) will be sad.
Although it is empathised that Egeus wants his daughter to marry a good man but Lysander is also as good. Thus, it is a little too unreasonable to ask Hermia to marry Demetrius since both men are equally good in terms of status and wealth.
I also think that Egeus should not be referred to as a god, because it is not right to assume that the decision made by Egeus for Hermia to marry Demetrius is correct. Human make mistakes. So maybe this time Egeus may have made the wrong decison in letting the two marry.
For conclusion, I think that it is right to ask Hermia to listen to her father but in this aspect where it concerns her happiness, she should be given the chance to choose who she really wants to be with.
Poh Si Hui_3JT
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI agree about Theseus statement to a certain extent. For in that era, the Elizabethan women era, women are known to serve men and have no free will. As shown, the text mentions Theseus telling Hermia that ‘to her her father should be as a god, one that composed her beauties and one whom she are but as a form in wax, imprinted by him and within his power to leave the figure or disfigure it.’ Women in that era are bred to think that males are superior and that they have no other choice than to follow them.
ReplyDeleteIn their bible, it says that a woman is a man’s property, and he can do whatever he wants with her, with no complains at all. This fact justifies the fact that Egeus claims he has full authority over Hermia. Also, one can be sure that a parent would want to do the best for their child, like what Kenneth Lee stated. A parent would do the best he or she can for the child to ensure the child's future ahead to be of a good one.
However, Theseus is also wrong because after all, like what Xin Hui has mentioned, Egeus is a human. He has no special powers of any sort that allows him to take what he wants. Every human would want to have their free will as to what he or she wants in life. Therefore, it is freedom of choice that Hermia lacks. Also, she has no reason why she should obey Egeus. With his temper, it is not surprising that Hermia would want to object to him. There is no guarantee that she will not suffer later on.
The lack of respect Egeus has for his daughter has now shown on Hermia herself. She is defending her rights that she deserves to have. At her father’s insistent demands, she cannot treat her father like a god. Gods are meant to be kind, generous, with only positive traits. Egeus certainly radiates none of it. It is hard to portrait Egeus as a god. And also, who wants to have their parents’ wishes? What the parents want to achieve, they should do it themselves, not stress their children into doing so, with the obvious exception of willing children.
Like what Si Hui said, Theseus is an outsider too. He knows nothing about Hermia and Egeus, but in their society, he is obliged to think that Egeus is right, just because he is male and is older.
As a conclusion, I think that Theseus is half right and wrong, and that he should not make decisions on biasness, and should know the facts before determining the truth. Hermia should also share with Egeus on their opinions and from there decide their choices. Egeus, on the other hand, should remain calm and let Hermia have her freedom and hand in deciding what she wants.
Kwek Yan Qing_3LY
~Yes! First 3LY student to post~
I agree with Yan Qing, as Thesus is right and wrong. One will normally take the stand of Hermia and think that Thesus is wrong, but Thesus is just following the law of Athens, and as the Duke of Athens, he should be an example of Athens, thus Thesus may not be wrong.
ReplyDeleteSng Khai Chong Emerson_3LY
~2nd LY person to post! HOORAY FOR SHAKESPEAR!~
I feel that Theseus is wrong in saying that. Although at that time, men is more superior than women, and they had to take care of the women. However, in this case, Egeus is forcing Hermia into marriage, if not she would need to enter a nunnery. This is not what a father should do, forcing his own daughter into something she would not want to do!
ReplyDeleteI believe if Egeus and Theseus still insists on forcing Hermia to marry Demetrius, she would not be happy for the rest of her life, as she is not with the man she is actually in love with. Also, I feel that Hermia has her own human rights and that she should be able to choose who she wants to marry and live with, for the rest of her life.
Also, God is perfect, whereas Egeus is not perfect, he makes mistakes just like any other human beings. And therefore, I think that Theseus should not use the word "God" to refer to Egeus.
In conclusion, I believe that Theseus is wrong in using "God" to refer to Egeus. In addition, they should not force Hermia to marry Demetrius, but instead, let her make the decision herself.
Cherilyn Lee, 3Jt.
In my opinion, I feel that Theseus was right. Egeus raised Hermia up since she was young and Hermia should obey her father. Hermia should be more grateful to Egeus and should not be so rebellious. Since Egeus wanted Hermia to marry Lyslander, she should just accept the marriage proposal so that her father would not be so angry. This could also let Hermia repay her father for all the things he had done for Hermia.
ReplyDeleteBeing a father during that time was hard. They have to work from day and night just to support the family. They also have to take care of their status in public to gain more fame from people. Besides that, they also have to love their children and try to give them the best of everything. The women only have to take care of household chores and take care of the children. Theseus wanted Hermia to realise how great her father is and his sacrifices for her. Therefore, Theseus wanted Hermia to regard her father as a god.
Samuel Seah 3JT
I agree to a certain extent that hermia should treat her father like a god.
ReplyDeleteIn the Elizabeth society, Man are treated as the inferior sex whereas women are the weaker sex and woman was expected to obey her father and as soon as she married she was subdued to the will of her husband. As said by John Knox, ‘’woman in her greatest perfection is to serve and obey men’’. They do not have their own say and do as they are told, such society is very unreasonable but at that time it is very normal, she should listen to her father as her father knows which man is good for her too.
However, Hermia should respect and listen to her father but treating her father like a god is way too much. A god is the perfect one and whom people worship to, a person to show great respect to but which daughter would actually worship his father. Hermia should not treat his father as a god as his father claimed that he could dispose of hermia as he wants to, which father would treat his daughter this way? Even if man is the inferior sex what kind of a father would treat his daughter in this manner.
Hermia was able to stand up for herself. Being a human being, they should have their own say and have the ability to make their own decisions. She would rather be a nun than marrying Demetrius.
In conclusion, I feel that Hermia should have her own say and be able to make her own decision but she should listen to her father as during that era, a woman should listen to her father until she marries but she should not treat her father as her god as her father is still a human and not perfect after all.
Lim Jun Jie 3JT (26)
I do not agree that Theseus is right that to Hermia, her father, Egeus should be as a god.
ReplyDeleteGods are highly respected by people as they are perceived to be always making the right choices and doing the right things. They are known as the mighty one, the one that can overcome every obstacle that comes his way. Those who believed in their faith, will then be able to gain the benefit of his care. However, in the context of the play, Egeus seemed to be a domineering father who does not care about how her daughter, Hermia, felt but instead, he goes on headstrong and does what he thinks is right and will be beneficial to him indirectly in the near future.
It was obvious that Hermia is in love with Lysander and had absolutely no thoughts of getting married with Demetrius. However, in the Elizabethan time, women are regarded as inferior as compared to men. Therefore, Hermia has to make the choice of whether to marry Demetrius by listening to her father or to be dealed by the law legally; to be a nun for life or to be killed. But by doing this, Egeus will not gain the respect of her daughter nor Lysander as their feelings were not taken into consideration. However, only Egeus self-centeredness can be seen by them as portrayed in the play. A god's action or decision is always perceived as right and respected by its people. But, in this play, we can see that Hermia does not agree to how her father thinks and attempted to argue back with Theseus that she wants to be with Lysander and not Demetrius. Lysander had also brought out the issue that he as compared to Demetrius is as well borned, well equipped, rich and might be even better than Demetrius. Therefore, by making a decision of wanting Hermia to marry Demetrius as Egeus likes him better is not reasonable to the young couple thus, his decision would not be respected as though he is a god.
All in all, I think that Theseus is not right as Egeus does not even possess any characteristics of the mighty God. He only insists that things to go his way and he never considered the feelings of her daughter when marriage was supposed to be a life-long issue.
Kaline Lim(14) 3BN
In my opinion, I feel that Thesues should not say that Egues is a god as I feel that a god should be fair and just but I don’t see any of these qualities in Egues. He is not being fair to Hermia as he does not allow her to marry Lysander whom she really loves. Instead, he forces Hermia to marry Demetrius or she becomes a nun forever. I feel that Egues is also not fair as he only considers to let Hermia marry Demetrius as her prefers him to Lysander, without even thinking that his daughter’s true love is Lysander and not Demetrius.
ReplyDeleteEgues cannot be named a god also because he does not listen to others and is self-centred. For example, he is persistent that Hermia should marry Demetrius as he likes him and this shows that he does not care about Hermia’s feelings. He is being self-centred in this way. He also does not listen to whatever Lysander explains to him why Demetrius should be not be the one who marry Hermia as Demetrius once courted Helena and may not be true to Hermia.
Therefore, I feel that Thesues saying of Egues being a god to Hermia is not right as he does not even possess the basic qualities of being a god.
Travis Wong(36)3BN
In those days, Theseus is probably right. In those days, fathers are to be treated with respect. And they hold full authority over their daughters. Women did not have any rights and decisions about their life were to be decided by their fathers (if they are not married) or their husbands (if they are married). Hence, given this rule in the past, Theseus is correct. Males were given higher authority over females. So, Theseus is right in those days to say that fathers are to be treated like gods.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if there isn't such a rule in the past, I would say that Theseus was very wrong to say fathers are to be treated like gods. To say god, we are mentioning someone divine, someone immortal, someone incapable of making mistakes. However, a father is a mortal, a human and is capable of making mistakes or wrong judgements at times. When a father misjudges a situation, the daughter should be able to stand up for herself and not follow her father blindly and make the wrong decisions. We cannot follow our fathers all the time. We can get advice from him to aid in our decision, but we cannot make decisions based on just what our fathers say. This is the daughter's life, and she is in charge of it and I'm sure she knows herself better than her father does. Hence, I would say that Theseus was wrong to have said that fathers are to be treated like gods.
-Jocelyn (20) 3Courage.
I do not agree with this statement. Even though in the past, women are seen as the weaker gender and had to obey their male family members, this does not mean their fathers or any male relatives are to be seen as their gods, like what Theseus had said.
ReplyDeleteAs we see in the play, Egeus had planned a marriage for Hermia and he had expected Hermia to obey him and marry Demetrius. However, we also know that Hermia loves Lysander, and not Demetrius. In a way, Egeus is abusing his power as a father and is 'forcing' his daughter to marry someone she does not like. To me, this is unacceptable as Hermia has her own rights to pursue her happiness and not to let her father control her life.
Even though women are seen as the weaker gender, this does not mean that their fathers or elders are to become the centre of their lives, their gods. Women should also have their own say in what they want and not to obey everything their elders had said. Thus, i think that Theseus is wrong.
Oh Kai Rong(16)
3CR
Egeus does not have the right to control whatever Hermia thinks because she herself is human and has her own rights. This means that Egeus and also Theseus should respect Hermia's decision on whom she wants to marry becasue it concerns her lifelong happiness, not Theseus' happiness or Egeus' happiness for that matter. Theseus is also being brutally unfair to Hermia by decreeing that she either marries Demetrius or becomes a nun and that means practicing celibacy for the rest of her life just because she does not wish to marry the man her father wants her to marry. It is also rather cruel on the part of Egeus to force his own daughter to marry someone(Demetrius) she does not want to marry, when it was obvious she loves someone else(Lysander). Also, if he really wanted his daughter to be happy for the rest of her life, he should just let her marry whom she really loves and is willing to go through thick and thin with, however, by forcing Hermia to marry someone she does not love, it shows that Egeus does not really care about his own daughter's opinion and although he feels that the man he has chosen(in this case it would be Demetrius) would be suitable for his daughter, it appears she feels otherwise.
ReplyDeleteFrom the above mentioned, it is very obvious that Egeus is what one would hardly call a caring and loving father and even much less a god. Because, isn't a god supposed to be benevolent, kind, compassionate, caring and loving? It so rather happened that Egeus just does not have the qualities that were in the abovementioned sentence and it would therefore be extremely absurd and ridiculous for Egeus to be called a god. In addition, Egeus wants Hermia to marry Demetrius because he feels that Demetrius is a better man than Lysander and he feels that people will treat him with more respect if he is family with a noble household. This also proves that Egeus is only concerned about his own pride more than his daughter happiness. Therefore, in conclusion , Egeus is not fit to be called a god.
Benedict Lim(3IT)(25)
In my opinion, I feel that Theseus is in a way, right. Females in those days were given very few opportunities that men were given. They were in fact, known to be second class citizens. They were to be submissive towards their male counterparts, even when things don't go the way they want it to be.
ReplyDeleteHowever, which father in the right mind out there would want to force his daughter into a marriage she would be unhappy of? ( I mean, with the exception of Egeus himself ). It is not as if Demetrius was financially more affluent than Lysander, which would thus allow the father to want Hermia to marry Demetrius so that she could live a life of luxury. NO, Lysander himself is also affluent.
However, Egeus felt that as he has single-handedly raised Hermia since she was young, he had a say in what Hermia should do with her life, who to marry .etc.
In my opinion, marriage is about love and love cannot be forced. Just like how fixing to unmatching pieces of a jigsaw would destroy the puzzle, 'forcing' two ppl who don't match to marry would be ruining their life.
A god is supposed to be wise, just and good. Well, with that in mind, there is nothing godly about what Egeus is doing here. It is true that the male dominates but really, would the men still be powerful without the women? In fact, they wouldn't even be alive if not for the females.
Really, imagine what it would be like to worship your biological father? You love your father, not worship him.
Thus, to round things up, I feel that although it is true that we have to respect our parents and obey them, we still have got to think. No one else can say no about you when you say yes because it's your life- the 1 thing that is truely yours to lead.
Theseus is really exaggerating by referring to Egeus as a God. Hermia has to love Egeus and respect him as a filial daughter, BUT NOT WORSHIP HIM.
:)
Melvin Wongso (29)
3 IT
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I feel that Theseus is right.
ReplyDeleteThis is so as in Athens, it is a law and custom for the women to abide to the men’s decision. In this case, Hermia has the need, as a woman, to submit and obey Egeus who is the male member in her family. Evidence being, “Turned her obedience, which is due to me to stubborn harshness”.
Basically, if we were to look things from that period of time, we would be able to see that it was typical and a norm for arranged marriage. In that time, males were considered to be superior to women in terms of physical, intellectual, emotional and social status. Hence it was only normal for the “weak” to submit to the “strong” in the society.
Moreover, Theseus was the Duke of Athens and it was his role to uphold the laws and make sure they were carried out justly. Hence, it is wrong to say that a man was wrong for doing his job well and fulfilling his role in the society, especially during that point of time,
Lastly, we can see that in Egues’ speech, he referred Hermia as his property and hence had the power to decide to whom she should marry. Evidence being, “As she is mine, I may dispose of her”. Theseus was just reinforcing this point and trying to advice Hermia to “go with the flow” and respect his father’s decision.
Although many people argued that Theseus was wrong as clearly Egeus was not fit to be god due to his self-centred and unreasonable act, they must also see that it is “to Hermia” should Egeus be as god. In other words, this is only a comparison or even an analogy. God, in this context can mean a greater being but it can also mean the one who created man. At that time, people strongly believed in magic, pixies and even god. They see god as the creator of humans. Hence, Egeus can be god as he was the one who gave life to Hermia. Evidence being, “One that composed your beauties—yea, and one to whom you are but as form in wax”. In figure of speech, Theseus was trying to tell Hermia that she should treat Egeus as god and respect his decision for her marriage.
Hence, this is why I believe Theseus is right when he said these words.
Wang Hao Yu (33) 3BN
Theseus is not entirely wrong, nor is he right. God is an object of worship, an idol. In Theseus’ society, women are obliged to obey and serve men. They are not supposed to show any sign of disobedience. It was his culture that deems women as the “submissive” sex. Also, it was in Hermia’s benefit if she were to marry Demetrius. Demetrius is wealthy, influential and has a good family background. Egeus only wanted Hermia to live a life of luxury.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in modern society, Theseus’ ideology will not suffice or even accepted due to the change in women’s position. Nowadays, women are on equal footing as men. If a woman is asked to treat her father as a god, it will be considered a sexist act. I believe women should be given the right to have a say in deciding her future, disregard of the time period. If a god forces a woman into a marriage against her will, eliminating her happiness, then the god is obviously tyrannical. Therefore, the god will no longer be worshipped or idolised, and is not considered a god anymore.
In conclusion, I believe Theseus is right due to his circumstances. He should not be compared to modern standards and instead to the norm of his time.
Hu Xiaoqi [5]
ThreeJustice
i feel that theseus is right to a certain extent. when theseus says that hermia should treat her Father as a god, i feel that hermia should go into accordance with her Father's will in most of the (minor) situations, and try to put herself in her Father's shoes, or compromise and try to follow his decision, because her Father made the decisions as he feels that they will benefit hermia most in theong run too, even if she does not like it.
ReplyDeletehowever, on the other hand, in this case, i feel that hermia should not silently suffer and follow her Father's decisions, as this concerns the next half of her life. also, theseus says that hermia should treat egeus as a god. however, egeus does not even take into consideration hermia's feelings when he forces her to marry demetrius, nor care about hermia's protests or requests to be with lysander. a god should be impartial and uphold justice, but egeus fufills neither conditions. on the contary, he is tyrannical, unfeeling, rude, chauvinistic and insulting.
therefore, i agree with theseus's statement that hermia should treat egeus as a god, however, in this situation, she should fight for her right, and not silently suffer from her Father decisions.
Lucas Tang (28), 3JT
AKA the pro
Although Theseus' statement of "to you your father should be as a god" is unacceptable in this modern era, given the fact that this scene was meant to have taken place in Athens in the olden times, I have to say I agree with Theseus' view.
ReplyDeleteIn accordance to the setting and timeframe of the play, women were treated as mere commodities and were subjected to the absolute rule of men, be it their father, brother or even a male relative. This can be seen from both the statements of Theseus and Egeus alike. In Theseus' case, he mentions that the father is the "one who composed your beauties", along with "it is within his power" to determine what to do with an errant daughter like Hermia. This shows that Theseus believes that the father has absolute control over his daughter, and that the daughter should follow her father's orders without question. This goes the same for Egeus, and it can be seen from him repeating that Hermia "is mine" and he has the right to decide what to do with her. He also goes on to state that he "estate unto Demetrius" his daughter, Hermia.
An interesting fact to note is that there was no uproar over Theseus' and Egeus' words alike. If this was not a commonly accepted view in their time, the idea of treating women like property would have seemed absurd and we would have seem Hermia, for she is a headstrog lady, and perhaps even Hippolyta raising this point up for debate. However, this was not done, which shows that these statements, which seems outrageous in our time, was perfectly accepted by the people of that era. Hence, I conclude that I agree with Theseus' statement as given the context of the situation and background information about how things were ruled like in their time, he is right and his words conform to their beliefs at that time.
Kelly Chng Wei Ni (15) _ 3BN
this was way hard and long to type on my phone :/ I had to keep scrolling up to refer to the question. Maybe you would like to consider leaving the commnts screened?
In my opinion, I disagree with what Theseus had told Hermia. God is a perfect being, whereas Egeus is an imperfect human being, making him the same as everyone else. Hermia is a human being, just like her father and should have her own rights. Even though in that time, men were seen to be more superior than women, but I feel that Hermia should still stand up for herself and fight for her own beliefs. Hermia had the rights to stand up and decide by herself whom she wanted to spend the rest of her life with.
ReplyDeleteAs a father, Egeus should have been more respectful and reasonable to Hermia’s decision. He should not have threatened Hermia to either wed Demetrius or become a nun forever. It is true that Hermia should obey her father, but Egeus should prioritize Hermia’s happiness first. It was reasonable of him to try to convince her to wed Demetrius, but it was unacceptable to force her into doing so.
God, however, is fair and would never force His people into doing anything against their will. Therefore, Hermia did not have any need to see Egeus, her father, as a God. Therefore, I feel that what Theseus had said is incorrect.
Kimberly Tan Hwei Min (8)
3 Justice
Q)In Act 1 Scene 1, Duke Theseus tells Hermia to comply with her father's wishes, saying
ReplyDelete'To you your father should be as a god.'
In your opinion, is Theseus right? Why or why not?
A) In my opinion, Theseus is wrong. No human can be compared to being the "god" of another human, as all humans are to be treated as equals. Despite this commonly known and agreed statement, humans still enforce foolish things such as "ranking" or taking control of the inhabitants of a certain area, and the person at the top known as the King, Duke, Feudal Lord, etc. Thus, the people at the top gives orders, and the people at the bottom follow them, just as what Theseus and Egeus may have thought what should be happening, in the case of Egeus' and Hermia's Father-Daughter relationship, in which the daughter has to obey and respect the father's decisions at almost all costs, regardless of any disagreements or unhappiness involved.
Many of us may say that Egeus should not have total control over Hermia's life as though he is her "god", but in the Elizabeth-ian times, the commonly known "rule" is that daughters have to obey their parents' decisions on her life, like where she puts up on, which school she goes to, and most importantly who she marries. Hermia has made it clear that the one she loves is Lysander, however Egeus should not be assuming the role of "god" to force Hermia to make a choice - to marry Demetrius, according to her father, or to face the consequences of disobeying - death or lifelong stay in the nunnery. A common belief is that Hermia should get to make her own decisions, but they are living in the Elizabeth-ian times, where the children have no rights on things such as marriage. Thus, Hermia is advised, but not obliged, to heed his father's decisions, and not make any objections since it may cause him to have a bad reputation of "being incapable of handling his own daughter", as he was a reputable man in that time.
With the issues regarding Egeus and Hermia, I believe the relationship they share is truly that of "Father-Daughter", and Theseus may have mistaken it as to that of "God-Human", resulting in his statement to Hermia telling her that Egeus should be as a god to her, even though he may be persuading her to go along with her father's decision. Hence, I believe that to Hermia, her father, Egeus, should NOT be as a god.
TingJun(: 3JT(29)
*Reminder: the relationship between hermia and egeus is "I am your father", not "I am your god" :P
I believe that Thesus is right in saying that' To you your father should be as a god'. In this sentence, Thesus compares Egeus the likes of a god, where people believes, trust and execute the orders of god. God is a divine and his choice is always correct to his followers and no one should question him. In this case, Egeus and Hermia's relationship is compared to one of God and his followers. Hermia is forced to agree to Egeus' choice of counterpart for Hermia and Hermia should not question Egeus' choice.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Thesus is a good leader and by agreeing with Egeus, he is adhering to his own rules and regulation. If he goes easy on the both of them, he will be seen as corrupted and biased. At the first part of the play, Thesus is viewed as a severe figure who upholds order and authority of parents. Hence, he believes that Egeus is right and Hermia should follow obediently.
In conclusion, I believe that Thesus is correct as the law of Athens at that time is that a married woman listens to her husband while an unmarried woman listens to her father or male elders.
Clarence [28] 3INTEGRITY
I think that Theseus is right. During the time when the play is being written, female were expected to listen and obey the males no matter what. There was even the punishment, as mentioned in this scene, of Hermia being killed or becoming a nun if she was not to obey her father. Since this was their belief then, it was perfectly normal for Theseus to say that Hermia should see her father as God. Then, females are being 'trained' to not rebel the males no matter what and Hermia is not to refuse the marriage with Egeus' choice of Hermia's husband. Furthermore, as said that it was a must for females to obey males, it was very unusual of females like Hermia to reject a father's 'command'. Therefore, Theseus said that to Hermia, Egeus should be like God. This is to educate Hermia to repect her father and listen to him. Hence, I conclude that it is right for Theseus to say that Hermia should see Egeus as a God.
ReplyDeleteEstee Goh, 3BN.
To me, i feel that Thesues has her own point when she said that. However to me, i think it is over-exaggerated.
ReplyDeleteHe used 'God' as a benchmark of Egues role of being a father. God, from then till now, is someone whom many respect and look up to. God is known as someone who is perfect, and the greatest man in the world, in the whole universe. Therefore, it is rather inappropriate to use God to describe the of how Egues should be to Hermia, as as mentioned above, God is someone who is highly respected, and a perfect man. Egues, being an ordinary man, was not able to fufil the criteria of that of God.
On top of that, it was against Hermia's will of marrying Demetrius, as she was in love Lysander. So this is not a marriage with both sides agreeing to it, and it could be seen as 'force'. I think that Thesues's statement could not be valid. As Egues is doing something that his daughter dislike, and Hermia has the right to disagree to it. Thus, Thesues's view could not be agree as a father should not be forcing her daughter to do something she dislike, despite his status of being a father.
But looking at another point of view, Thesues might mean that Hermia should treat or respect her father, Egues, as how many respect God. To Thesues, he thought that as a daughter, as a woman in that era, Hermia should listen and obey her father's dicision. As in the given information of Elizabthen Woman, unmarried woman would be taken care of, by her father. Therefore, Thesues thought that she should respect her, as he will be the one taking care of her. And the fact that, Egeus is her father.
Moreoever, Egeus, being Hermia's father, had raised her up into a woman. And reaching a suitable age, Egues thought that it's time to allow Hermia to get married. Therefore, he wanted to betroth Hermia to Demetrius. Theseus thought that as a father, he ought to have the right to choose who he want her daughter to be marry to. And father would always give the best to the child.
Thus, i think that Thesues might be right at her point of view. But to others, it might seem ridiculous.
Ivy Heng (3) 3MD
I feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent when he tells Hermia that 'To you your father should be as a god.' The definition of a god is a being that is all powerful and all knowing, and during the Elizabethan Times, God was treated to be above everything else,thus whatever God says is right.
ReplyDeleteTheseus is not wrong to ask Hermia to treat her father like a god. The society during the Elizabethan Times was patriachal, which meant that men were considered to be the leaders,while women were considered to be their inferiors. Elizabethan women were raised to believe that they were inferior to men, and were expected to instantly obey not only their father but also any male member of the family. Any disobedience would be considered as a crime to her religion. It shows that fathers were treated like gods, and the other male members of the family treated like deities,that had full control over the female members of the family. Therefore, Theseus was right to tell Hermia to comply to Egeus' wishes, and that to her her father should be as a god. If Hermia was to not comply with Egeus' wishes, she would be going against her god,which would be going against her religion.
On the other hand, Egeus can not be compared to God. God is all knowing, and Egeus definitely does not know everything about the affairs of Hermia. For example, God would know exactly what would happen if Hermia was to marry Demetrius, while Egeus can only predict what would happen, but not know for a definite fact. Therefore, it shows the difference between God and Egeus, and how they are different, thus showing why Egeus should not be treated as Hermia's god.
But, a god would lead those that follow him to better days or conditions, and punish those that did not follow it. Egeus would be playing the role of the 'god' and Hermia the 'follower' here. Egeus could be possibly trying to lead Hermia to better days by making her marry Demetrius, because Demetrius would have to take care of her, make sure she had everything that she needed, and was also not allowed to abuse her. So, Egeus could possibly trying to make sure that Hermia would be well taken care of by forcing her to be married off. However, some would question, 'If so,why Demetrius,why not Lysander?' This is because Demetrius had the likings of Hermia's father,thus Egeus would rather have Demetrius as a son-in-law instead of Lysander. Another reason to why Egeus did not allow Hermia to marry Lysander was because Egeus felt that Lysander was a trickster and liar,and would not give Hermia long-term happiness. Also, he felt that Lysander was the reason to why Hermia began disobeying him. Therefore,he did not want Lysander to marry Hermia, as he was afraid that Lysander would continue to lead Hermia astray. Therefore, I feel that it is acceptable to agree with Theseus's view of Hermia treating Egeus as a god, for a god leads his followers to brighter days,and that is what Egeus is trying to do now.
---CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST---
ReplyDeleteMany people would have felt that Theseus would be wrong to state something like that. However, we must also take in to consideration the time this play was written. Nowadays, men and women are given equal oppurtunities for jobs, education and so on. There is no weaker or stronger sex, nor was one sex more respected than the other. However,being written in the Elizabethan Times, this play's setting is similar to the society of the Elizabethan Times, where men were leaders, and women were considered as the weaker sex. Therefore,we must look at this situation with the views of a person in the Elizabethan Times. Back then, Theseus' statement would have been widely accepted by others, as society dictated that men be the leaders of women. This is why i agree with Theseus' statement that Egeus should be regarded as a god by Hermia.
Therefore, I feel that Theseus is right by telling Hermia to treat Egeus as though he was her god. Society widely accepted this view during the Elizabethan Times, since the society was led by men. Also, even though Egeus do not have the qualities that make God God, he has the motives of God,which is to lead his followers to better things,where in this case, the follower would be Hermia.
Ong Wei Jie (31) 3JUSTICE.
I feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent. In Elizabethan times, it is wrong to disobey male members of the family. Hermia should therefore follow her father's beliefs and choices for her, similar to faith in a religion.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Egeus does not have to be worshipped by Hermia. Even if Hermia must respect and obey him, it does not necessarily suggest that Hermia has to treat him like her personal god. Hermia was not bound to idolise or worship Egeus. She was taught to be submissive and to obey,
Hence, I believe that Theseus is right to a certain extent.
Yap Hsin Tung (24) 3Benevolence
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo be true, I was disgusted by the phrase “To you your father should be as a god” and I strongly think that Theseus was not right. Although a female does have the obligation to listen the male as female were treated as the weaker sex then, and though Egues may be carrying the title of Hermia’s father, I think he does not have the rights to interfere her daughter’s happiness.
ReplyDeleteHermia was a grown-up and she should have the sense and know what was best for her, she was to bear the consequence of her choice herself and only to take her father’s words as advice. Clearly we could see that Egues was trying to protect her daughter despite her continuous rebellion and tried to marry her to a man of his preference (Demetrius). However his ‘kind’ act had lead to the elopement of Hermia and Lysander at the later part of the story. Also we could see that Egues was an unbending person because despite plenty of reasons given by Hermia that she did not love Demetrius and was unwilling to marry him and Lysander was fairly ranked and born noble, Egues was still unwilling to forgo the marriage between Hermia and Demetrius and clung tenaciously to his opinion.
Marrying to a person who you do not love is torturing and two who is in love but cannot be together is also suffering. If Egues had put himself in her daughter’s shoe and have a second thought, the three of them might live together happily ever after.
The definition of god is” the being or spirit that is worshipped and is believed to have created the universe”, from my perspective of view, a father should only be respected and loved but surely not worshipped! So I conclude that Theseus was wrong!
Yan Li (36) 3JT ==!
In my opinion, I don't agree to the statement to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteIt is true, that Hermia, being the daughter of Egeus, have to respect him, as in their society, female has the obligation to listen to the male since the female is considered the weaker sex among the sexes.
However, i felt that, the way they describe fathers as "God", is overly exaggerated. God has a definition of being the creator and ruler of all things- True, in a sense in which our fathers "created" us, but not true in a way that fathers cannot rule our thinking! We have our own thoughts, though it can be swayed/ influenced, there are some times in which we have to follow our hearts, mindsets, and not share the same thinking as our parents. Furthermore, Hermia is old enough to decide her fate herself, it is not as if she is just a kid with child-like mentality. She should have her own freedom, free to speak her thoughts. And this right, should not be taken away from her, even if his father was "god".
A god, is a being/force who is worshipped by a group of people who is believed to have the power to control nature and human affairs. In a sense, god is perfect. And Egeus, is so not it. He coerced her own daughter to have the same mindset with him, just by overpowering with the fact that she was her daughter and she was supposed to heed to his needs! The phrase, " worshipped by a group of people", isn't true as well. Egeus was not worshipped, he was only respected, as a father. And a group of people? So far, after reading scene 1 of act 1, i only saw Hermia, being the only person who actually respected him dearly.
And therefore, i do not think Theseus is right, to an extend.
Jiehui(12) 3MD.
I feel that Theseus is being selfish and ignorant in his point of view towards the relationship between Hermia and Egeus.He is therefore wrong in the way he thinks.He uses the word 'God' to show his opinion of how a girl should treat her father.'This word indicates the supremacy and dominance that men have over women.This is partially due to the traditions of the Elizabethan era which states that it is wrong for the women to defy male members of the family at that time.We all know that Hermia is in love with Lysander and not Demetrius and hence i feel that Egeus should reconsider his plans for his daughter's marriage.Being unbending and prideful will only risk Hermia's life long happiness.So i feel that as a father,he should put his daughter's choice as the first priority.If not,it is very unfair to Hermia as she will not have a choice of who she truly wants to be with.And it is essential for the girl and her father to share mutual respect and love for each other instead of pressurizing the girl to make a unwanted decision.
ReplyDeleteTan wei yang(3jt)(34)
i agree with Theseus to a certain extent. In the Elizabethan times, women are expected to serve the men, and daughters are supposed to obey their fathers. It is almost unheard of for a daughter to rebel against her father. In those times, it is true that daughters view their father is the ''Supreme'', the same thing as ''God is Supreme''. It is their father who gave them life, who fed them, who provided for them. Thus, it can also be said that their father ''created'' them, the same way God created humans. I think that the people of those times have this view over things, and thus Theseus says that.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think that the belief that 'Father is Supreme'' is wrong. It is always the father who decides how the daughter should live her life, using Hermia and Egeus as an example. Hermia is one of the few that stands up for herself, for her pwn happiness. As a result, Thesues is shocked and Egues is ashamed of how his own daughter turned out. Egeus wants the best for Hermia, that is true. However, while doing so, he believes that only his choices is right, and that Hermia should not marry Lysander and marry Demetrius. Egues misunderstands Hermia. He thinks that she is being disrespectful and wilful, and is being that way on purpose. Thus, he has no regret subjecting her to the law of Athens, which might mean ending Hermia's life. He is blind to the fact that Hermia respects her father dearly, but she just wants to have a say in her own future. That is why she made the decision to run away.
In Act one Scene one, we see Egues as hard hearted. he wants the best for Hermia. Thesues told Hermia that to her, her father is God. I think that that is wrong. God, is meant to be worshipped, above all other things. However, a father is for the daughter to love and respect, definitely not worship. Hermia is respecting her father, despite not wanting to marry Demetrius. Thus, i feel that Theseus is wrong to say that father should be viewed as God
Charmaine Heng (2) 3JUSTICE
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThesus feels that a daughter should treat her father with respect and can go to the extent of worshipping her father. “to you your father shoud be as a god”. Her father should have the final say and not her, she only has the right to abide and follow what she is told to do. I disagree upon such kind of unfairness. All are humans, all have the right to choose our future and route. No one person’s choices in life should be decided by another. Other than the person involved in the issue or problem, the rest have no right to decide the results. They only have the right to influence the choice made by the person. A father may have brought the child up, but that does not give him the privilege to decide upon the child’s life. That’s immoral, it is as if the child is his possession and holds no emotions or thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent. In their time, women are said to be the weaker sex, therefore women should obey the men and do whatever she is told to do so. It will be disgraceful and embarrassing to the man if the women dared to defy him, so I think that is why Egeus was very stubborn and angry when Hermia did not want to marry Demetrius, but Lysander instead. In the Elizabethan era, the men are the ones who are supporting the women and the children. Therefore, without men, the women are unable to survive by themselves. So it is right to say 'To you your father should be as a god'.
ReplyDeleteHowever, on the other hand, I feel that Hermia should have the right to be able to choose who she wants to marry instead of Egeus choosing who she is to marry. If Hermia marry Demetrius, whom she does not love at all, her life would be a torture as she has to spend her life with him. Instead, as a father, I feel that if Egeus loves Hermia and sees her as his daughter, he should let her be happy and let her choose who she wants to spend her life with. By making choices for her, it would only make matters worst.
Therefore, I feel that even though Egeus had brought Hermia up, Hermia should have the right to make her own choices and not obey to everything Egeus says.
I think Theseus is correct, to a certain extent, because that was how the people of the Elizabethan era believed about women. Everyone belived it to be true, so no one would think of questioning it, when even a very influential Protestant leader believed so. Religion during that time was also used as a means to persuade people that the viewpoint about women was right and since the people then were very religious, this particular method works very well to convince the people. To oppose the viewpoint would mean opposing the entire society, so one cannot blame Theseus for thinking this way, since that was the way things were, and a sort of code of conduct within the society regarding women.
ReplyDeleteComment by: Dena Andina Suhadi_3BN
I feel that Theseus is correct.
ReplyDeleteIn the elizabethan era, men were expected to be the breadwinners and women to be housewives and mothers. Women were regarded as "the weaker sex", both physically and mentally.
Women were not allowed to go to school or to university. The only way they could study was by private tutors. Women were not allowed to enter the professions like law or medicine. They could, however, work as cooks or maids.
Women were not allowed to act on the public stage or write for the public stage. They were not allowed to inherit their father's titles.
Women who were unmarried had to enter domestic service. This made marriage highly desirable by all women of lower classes. Furthermore, women had to obey their male counterparts. If they disobeyed, they would be punished.
All of these factors contribute to the mindset that men were superior to women. As Theseus said, "One that composed your beauties- yea, and one. To whom you are but as a form in wax. By him imprinted, and within his power, To leave the figure or disfigure it."
What Theseus means is that since the father bears a hand in the birth of the daughter, she is supposed to obey him. Metaphorically speaking, the father would be the creature of the wax figure, and the daughter would be the wax figure. It would be in the father's power to "leave the figure or disfigure it"
A god is defined as the ruler and creator of all things. In that sense, Egeus is the personal god of Hermia, since he 'created' her. In all religions, people worship their god and are supposed to obey their god. So Hermia is supposed to completely obey her father, Egeus.
Therefore, I would like to conclude that it is not incorrect of Theseus to say "To you your father should be as a god" given the mindset of the Elizabethan era.
No offence meant.
Tan Goong Hong (30) 3MD
I got a typo, "Metaphorically speaking, the father would be the CREATOR of the wax figure"
ReplyDeleteSorry. Thanks.
I feel that Theseus is wrong.
ReplyDeleteI feel that no matter which sex you are from, your father, should never be receiving the same treatment as a god. The treatment a god receive is more of a worship type. A father can be worthy of your respect and filial piety or be your inspiration, but definitely not worship.
Hermia can be indebted to her father for bringing her up, but she should have a right in choosing her own partner. Just because you brought up a child, doesnt means you have control over his or her life. Egeus cannot choose for Hermia who she should be with as the happiness that comes from love belongs to Hermia not Egeus. And I believe, no parents in the world would like to see her own children in misery, not to say causing them misery. But Egeus, has done that, by forbidding Hermia to find true happiness by forcing Hermia to marry another guy she don't like.
xinhao. 3IT.
In my opinion, I feel that Theseus is right.
ReplyDeleteDuring the Elizabethan times which is when the story took place, women were considered inferior to men. Since young, they were expected to instantly obey all the male members of their family. As Hermia does not have a husband yet, she should respect her father's decisions and does as what he wishes. In addition, it was her father who gave her life and nurtured her. This is similar to God, who is also described as the one who gives lives.
Furthermore, Theseus is the Duke of Athens and represents power and order throughout the story. Hence, he should adhere to the customs and beliefs to the society then, and should not make an exception for Hermia. I believe that Theseus did not make that comment without thinking it through as he should be able to emphatise with Hermia's feelings for Lysander.
In conclusion, I agree that Theseus is right in saying that Egeus should be as a God to Hermia.
Goh Yanling Daryl(8) 3BN
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think that Theseus is right to a certain extent.
ReplyDeletewhen a person is told to be a god, this shows that he is to be respected and looked up to. As stated ,when the female is not married, either their fathers, brothers or uncles are supposed to take care of them, in the belief that women are weak and always need to be taken care of by a man. Egeus as her father has to take care of her as she is unmarried yet. he has been taking care and nurturing Hermia for a very long time, that should warrant for Hermia respect for him and to listen to him.As from the book, Hermia is compared to a property and Egeus a god, Egues is the owner of Hermia, and can get rid of her like disposing an object anytime.Therefore,Egeus is being compared to god.He can do anything he want, even deciding Hermia's marriage for her. If Egues is said to be a god, then Hermia should listen to him for any instructions, even if it do not go with her desires.
On the other hand,Theseus is wrong partially in that no matter in what situation, even through a god, they do not have the right to stop Hermia's happiness and future. In the story, Hermia is forced to marry demetrius although the person she love and want to marry is lysander. Althought compared to a god, Egeus should not have any right to control Hermia's future as Egeus being a god is just a comparison, Egeus is not a god and he will misjudge like everyone eslse. He might think the demetrius is a perfect match for Hermia but perhaps demetrius is only putting on an act and does not treat Hermia nicely in the future. Due to the fact that there was no divorce in the past, if Egeus misjudged, Hermia would suffer for the rest of her live, but if Hermia herself choose her future, then she would not have any regrets.
In conclusion,I believe that Theseus is right to a certain extent as hermia should listen to him as he is her father and that warrants it, but however Hermia should have the right to choose her future.
Sim Da Yang 3md
I feel that Theseus is correct.
ReplyDeleteBack in their day and time, no matter how we may argue, it is not doubt that women were, and always had been the considered the weaker sex. Hermia is undeniably indebted to Egeus for her upbringing. Had Egeus not took care of her, clothed her, fed her and showered his love upon her, she might not even be standing where she is, arguing over who she should and should not marry.
"To you your father should be as a god."
People have overlapping views of the term "god". But no matter the god any religion, the idea of one is to be worshipped upon as thanks for all that he or she has given us. Worshipping aside, people also seek gods for advice regarding their own life. Thus, this was what I think Theseus was insinuating when he said this statement.
He was trying to put across to Hermia that what Egeus did, the "advice" he dispensed, for her to marry Demetrius, was for her own good and that she should take the advice as one who worship Egeus, since she is forever indebted to Egeus for bringing her up.
Emma Wong, 3CR.
i feel that theseus is right to a certain extent. Egeus is not a god, he does not have the authority and he dosen't command respect like a god does. He is not almighty, he is not kind, and neither is a compassionate person, therefore i do not think he should be referred as a god. however, i do agree that hermia should at least respect her father because in the elizabethan times, men are the inferior sex and egeus is still hermia's father so hermia should respect her own father as egues as has raised her.
ReplyDeleteHowever, i think that egeus should not have been referred to a god, i think it is too extreme. We should respect our fathers, but definitely not to the point of worshipping them. There should be a clear difference between worshipping and respecting or it will become very unhealthy. therefore, i think theseus is right to a certain extent
aries lim 3IT
as thesues said that egues should be like a god to hermia. i feel that this is true as in the era that the play was in the law was that the women was supposed to be taken care of by a male family members who are usually the sole bread winners of the family and being a woman hermia was supposed to be the person that is a person that should to listen to egues every one command because he feels that he is correct
ReplyDeletethesues is the one that is supposed to ensure the law in athens and as egues is the one that nutures and surpports hermia and thus without egues hermia would not be what she is today. and thus hermia should listen to egues like a god and thesues is the law maintainer in athens and there should not be exceptions in hermia fate.
thus i think that thesues is right to tell hermia that egues is god to hermia.
brian lee 3jt
I think that Theseus is right to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteIn the Elizebethan Era, it is known to all that the males are dominant over the guys, females are known to be the male's property and they could do whatever they wanted to the female as long as he does not harm her. The females are also supposed to listen to the males and could not complain on the orders given by the males. Disobedience is seen as a crime against their religion and the punishment for disobedience was the whippin stool where the girls are beaten into submission. Thus, the females were to listen to the males no matter what. Thus in their society, Theseus saying: "To you your father should be as a god" is considered right.
However, to refer Egeus as a god is wrong. Egeus is like all other human beings who will often make mistakes. To be referred to as god is to be considered perfect. However, as humans, none of us are perfect thus Egeus could not be considered god. Hermia should have the right to stand up for herself and disagree with the marriage as it concerns her life long happiness. Though women do not have much say in the society at that time, Hermia could be different and stand up for herself. Morever, she is human too. She has her own thoughts and feelings and have the right to voice out to something that concerns her life. If she were to listen to every single thing Egeus says, there wouldn't be a need for her existence or a brain in her head. Though Egeus does have Hermia's happiness at heart, he may be wrong with his judgement on Demetrius and Lysander. Hermia, moreover, is no longer a child and has enough sense to be able to know who she would want to spend her life with. She should not be treated like a puppet who would listent to every word Egeus said or life would be so meaningless to her.
Thus in conclusion, though its is right in the time for Hermia to treat Egeus as god, she should also have the right to stand up for herself and voice out her opinions and decide on her marriage.
Chua Yiying 3LY
I think that Theseus is correct to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteIn the Elizabethan era, women were generally considered inferior to men, and they are supposed to be at their bidding. Thus, Egeus, as Hermia's father, must be considered as a god to Hermia. He should generally be respected and obeyed.
However, if Egeus really care about Hermia's happiness and wants the best for her, he should give his blessings to Hermia and Lysander, as they are truely in love with each other. Demetrius, however, is said to have courted Helena before he set his eyes on Hermia. Thus, the marraige between Hermia and Demetrius would be unfair to all four people.
Although Egeus should be considered god to Hermia, he cannot be always right. It is natural for humans to make mistakes, and if Egeus is treated by Hermia as a god and Hermia would always obey him dutifully, it is for sure that both might commit grave mistakes if they are only following their intuition.
MOreover, Hermia should have her own rights and say to her future husband. He is the one who is going to take care of her when Egeus is gone. If Egeus really forced her to marry Demetrius, Hermia might not lead a happy life and maybe even suffer in the future.
ong jiaqi(11) 3MD
I feel that Theseus is right.
ReplyDeleteDuring the Elizabeth period,men had higher authority than women.Women had no say in the society and were not treated with respect,thus,during then,it was right that Theseus say that Hermia should treat her father as God as everyone feel that men were more powerful then.
Also,Hermia's father brought her up and took care of her needs since young.Thus,Hermia should heed her father's advice and not go against him.Afterall,women did not have any rights then.She should also respect her father and treat him as a god.
In conclusion,I feel that Theseus is right as during Elizabeth Period,everyone's mindset is that women were the weaker sex and they should stay at home to do domestic chores.Thus,Theseus felt that Hermia should treat her father as a God and listen to whatever he say.
Peixuan
3IT
In my opinion, Theseus is right. Hermia should have obeyed her father and complied with his wishes.
ReplyDeleteThis may seem ridiculous to many of us, having no freedom in choosing our life partners. In the modern world that we live in today, we often talk about freedom and human rights. No one should have the authority to control another's life.
However, during the period of Elizabethan society as in the novel, women had almost no rights over their lives. Women were "the weaker sex", trained to be submissive and serve their husbands. They were not allowed to attend school or enter professions and had to stay at home to mend the household. Women were basically dominated by males in society.
It was uncommon for women to stand up against others and fight for themselves. Egeus was deeply rooted to such customs. Thus, it is understandable why he was outraged when Hermia defied him.
Theseus said ,'To you your father should be as a god.' What he probably meant was that as a child, one should obey and treat her elders with respect. Even if it was an unreasonable request, a child should not defy her elders or upset them.
In actual fact, Egeus was unrelenting and unreasonable. He did not bother to listen to Hermia and her reasons for insisting on marrying Lysander. As a father, he failed to respect his daughter and hear her out. Still, given the time and social situation, Theseus was right in saying that Hermia should have treated her father like god and complied with her father's decisions.
Jeanette Liew, 3JT
In my opinion, I think that what Theseus said is not right. In the Elizabethan society, the man’s opinion would always precede over the woman’s one. I can say that Hermia has quite a rebellious personality in the book and has the right to stand up to her own decisions. She is old enough to know what she wants to do and would accept the consequences. This can be seen when she said “I beseech your grace that I may know the worse that might befall me in this case if I refuse to wed Demetrius. Choices have consequences and in the context, Hermia is willing to bear the consequences of her decision
ReplyDeleteGod is deemed as the supreme being.Egeus as a father should not be the one to force her who she should wed instead as a father he should embrace the decision that Hermia makes and not disagree with it. Egeus should not make the, decision that Hermia is supposed to make for herself. Hermia is willing to go to the nunnery such that she does not wed Demetrius so how can Egeus influence affect her? Therefore I conclude that Theseus is not right.
Bing Xian (27)
3 modesty
I disagree that Theseus is right that to Hermia, her father, Egeus should be recognised and somehow being highly respected as compared to god.
ReplyDeleteGods are highly respected by people as they are perceived as the ones who always make right choices and doing right things. They are also known to be the mighty one, one that can overcome every obstacle that comes and blocks his way. People who believed them, will be able to gain the benefit of god's care. However, in the context of THE MIDSUMMER NIGHT DREAM, Egeus appears in the context to be a domineering father who does not care about how his daughter, Hermia, felt about any decisions that he makes but instead, he is determined about ver decison he makes and does what he thinks is right and will be beneficial to him in due course.
It was obvious in the play that Hermia is in love with Lysander and had absolutely no thoughts of being the wife of Demetrius. , in the Elizabethan time, women are regarded as the less important gender as compared to the men. Therefore, Hermia has to make the choice of whether to marry Demetrius by listening to her father or to be dealed by the law legally, to be a nun for life or to be killed. But by doing this, Egeus will not gain the respect of her daughter nor Lysander as their feelings would now be taken into any consideration. However, the self-centredness in Egeus could be seen by them as portrayed in the play. God's action or decision is always perceived as the right and respected by its people. But, in this play, we can see that Hermia disagree with how her father thinks and had wanted to argue back with Theseus that she wants to be with Lysander for the rest of her life instead of Demetrius. Lysander had also brought out the issue through the midsummer night dream that he, with comparision to Demetrius is as he is more well borned, well equipped, rich and might be even much better than Demetrius. Therefore, by deciding wanting Hermia to marry Demetrius as Egeus likes Demetrius better. It is not reasonable to the young couple thus, his decision would not be respected as though he is a god.
All in all, I think that Theseus is not right as Egeus does not possess any good and respectable characteristics of the mighty God. He insists things to go his way and he never considered the feelings of her daughter when marriage was supposed to be a life-long issue.
I believe that Thesues is wrong.
ReplyDeleteEgeus should not be treated as a god by Hermia. Gods are meant to be worshipped by people.Thus, Hermia can be a filial daughter but should not be worshipping Egeus as a god.
Egeus is also wrong to force Hermia to marry Demetrius.Even if she married Demetrius,she would never be happy as the one she truly loves is Lysander.Hermia would only lead a miserable life with Demetreius,a person she does not truly love.And i beleive that Egeus would not want to see Hermia miserable as her father.Therefore,he should let Hermia decide for herself who she would want to marry as it is going to be the person you would spend the rest of your life with.
Nicholas,3jt
Theseus is right in the sense that the children must treat their father with respect and love, like treating a god with respect and love. Children should not disobey their parents as they brought them into the world. However, I feel that in Hermia's case, she is no longer a child anymore so she can handle things on her own. The issue now is about her marriage, which is a life-long issue. The final decision should be made by Hermia herself, and not her father, Egeus. True that Egeus brought Hermia up, but looking at the way Egeus treats Hermia, Egeus does not deserve the respect of Hermia.
ReplyDeleteIn 'Act One Scene 1'
Line 42 : As she is mine, I may dispose of her...
In line 97 : And she is mine, and all my right of her...
It shows that Egeus does not treat Hermia with respect in the first place. He believed that he have all rights to control whatever Hermia do, just because she is his daughter. It seems as though Egeus feels that his daughter is just an object. Even a god would not say that human are just objects for gods to toss and throw around. Adding on, Hermia is the one getting married, not Egeus. She should decide on who she love and not be forced to marry someone she do not even respect. Thus, I strongly believe that Hermia is right in this case whereby she disobeyed Egeus' decision despite knowing the consequences. Egeus does not deserved to be treated with respect and love like treating a god since he does not treat others in that manner too.
Scotts, 3JT
P.S. Im daryl khoo from 3LY.I used emerson email because i dunhave a gmail. :D
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion,I feel that Thesus is correct,saying that,'To you your father should be as a god.'.During the Elizabethan era,women had no power and status and was inferior compared to men.They did not have any say in terms of decision making and the final say would be left to the male member of the family.
In the play,Hermia did not have any say in the family and Thesus would be the one that helps her to decide on every single matter,including her lifetime marriage,which was supposed to be decided by her.However,it was the Elizabethan era back then.Morever,Thesus was the Duke of Athens,which had much more power than any male.He would have the greatest strength to decide on her daughter's marriage.
Therefore,I feel that Thesus is correct,saying that,'To you your father should be as a god.'.
daryl 3LY
In my opinion, I feel that Theseus is incorrect. This is due to the fact that his advice are based on what is accepted during the Elizabethan times.
ReplyDeleteAlthough it is arguable that during the Elizabethan times, women were stereotyped as the weaker gender, one which has no rights and is incapable of making decisions for themselves.
However, such belief is flawed as women have their own mindset as well. By imposing social ethnics onto Hermia, it will only cause more misery as the love between Lysander and her is true(Or at least at that point) while there is no love between Hermia and Demetrius.
As such, there is simply no point in bringing Hermia and Demetrius together as it will not cause any happiness despite Egeus' approval. Therefore, i feel that Theseus is wrong.
Lim Kian Chong(32) 3bn
Theseus is partially right. As a daughter, Hermia should listen to his father and obey him. But this does not mean fathers are gods and thus right in everything. Egeus had also claimed that Hermia's belong to he's, he can abandon her anytime he wants, treating Hermia like an non-living object.
ReplyDeleteEgeus had bewed Hermia, his daughter, to Demetrius who had a high rank. Although Demetrius had won Hermia's father favour, he didn't manage to make Hermia he's. Instead, Hermia was in love with Lysander who was statusless. Love is lawless, it cannot be force. Egeus does not understand hence insist on the marriage of Hermia's and Demetrius.
Theseus thought love could be earn through conquest, but he was wrong. He also used the laws of Athens to force Hermia to marry Demetrius or be a nun. Hermia, with her own principles, chooses to be a nun rather to deceive herself and marry a man she does not love. She had her own stand without being sway by the others. Theseus failed using his status as a Duke to force Hermia to bewed to Demetrius as Hermia is determined with her decisions and clear with her thoughts.
Thus, Theseus is partially right that Hermia as a daughter should obey her father and be filial, but not being an object that her father could abandon anytime he likes.
In Act 1 Scene 1, Duke Theseus tells Hermia to comply with her father's wishes, saying
ReplyDelete'To you your father should be as a god.'
In your opinion, is Theseus right? Why or why not?
In my opinion, I feel that Duke Theseus was right to tell Hermia to comply with her father's wishes. When we read the book, we realised that during that time, men always had a higher rank and status in society where woman were told to be submissive to men. All of these factors contribute to the mindset that men were superior to women. Fathers at that time normally believe that their children was their "property" and that they are able to be "sold" at anytime as they were given birth by them. Therefore, Hermia being a woman , had to listen and comply with Egues, futhermore when he is her father.
When Theseus told Hermia 'To you your father should be as a god.' he was infering that God was someone with the highest authority not with that spiritual mindset. Therefore, by asking Hermia to treat her father as a God was because her father was the one with the highest rank in the family and had the most powerful authority that Hermia should obey. This might seem hard to accept in this modern world but we have to understand that it was then the in the elizabethan era and having to treat the father as God was commonly practised in that time although it might affect people's happiness and future. Therefore, what Theseus said was true when he tried to persuade Hermia to listen to her father.
Han Hui Ping
3 IT
To me, Theseus is very wrong and I do not concur with him. First of all, I feel that no one should be treated like a god- the only god is the god above. In the Elizabethan times, women had a low social stand in the society and were inferior to men. This is bad. Men and women should be treated equally and with respect. In Athens, there is also unfairness. In this case, Hermia truly loves Lysander but is forced to marry Demetrius as chosen by her father Egeus. I feel that Hermia is already grown up and it is time for her to make her own decisions. Why should Hermia treat Egeus as a god when Egeus does not even love Hermia, saying that he owns her and death will follow should Hermia not marry Demetrius. Is this what a good father would say? I also feel that privacy should be given to Hermia to handle her own love affairs and there is no need for Theseus and Egeus to intervene. Hermia has the right to choose who she wants to be with and Egeus should respect her decision. Even if he opposes her decision, he should keep mum about it. This way Hermia will not worry and will marry her lover. Everybody will be happy.
ReplyDeleteSome may argue that yes, Egeus has brought Hermia up since she was a child and Hermia should repay him by abiding to every one of her father’s decision. However, I feel that bringing a child up is a responsibility of a parent and it should not be used as an excuse for a father to choose who his daughter is to marry. I’m sure that when Hermia has children she would not want to choose their destiny. Also, some may argue that it is against the law of Athens for a child not to obey her father. To me, this is absurd, and the consequences are ridiculous. I believe Hermia has the right to decide her lover and she should stand up for herself.
In conclusion, I think that Hermia does not deserve to be made to see her father as a god. Theseus is wrong.
alden ong 3jt.
I think that Theseus is right to a certain extent. In the past, women are considered to be more inferior than men. They are also considered to be the weaker sex, regardless of whether physically or mentally.
ReplyDeleteIt is found to be very embarassing if a daughter were to disobey the father. Thus, Egeus was very insistent in wanting Hermia to marry Demetrius, rather than her true love, Lysander.
In Elizabethan era, it is said that women cannot survive without men as men are the ones working to support the family, and the females on the other hand are to be housewives to take care of their child. Therefore, Theseus is right to say that "to you your father should be god".
However, i think that women should still have a right of their own to marry whom they love. Marriage is a lifelong commitment and if Hermia was to marry who she doesn't love, she would not be happy and she would regret it for the rest of her life. And, since Lysander is also truly in love with Hermia, he would not mistreat her and would, instead love her and take care of her.
In conclusion, i think that Hermia should marry who she really loves and not whom her father wants her to marry. Then, in this case i think that Theseus is wrong.
Therefore, i only agree to a certain extent that Theseus is right about a father being a "god" to a daughter.
Wilda Lim(11) 3 Justice
Personally i think that it is wrong for theseus to say that , although in those days that may be their culture and he may be right in that era but i think that although we need to treat our father with respect it doesnt mean that we must listen and obey to everything he wishes . Theseus' used "god" to describe Egues and it doesnt seem as appropiate . "God" is used to describe the most high and although Egeus' is Hermia's father , if Egeus ordered something that is against Hermia's wishes , Hermia need not listen and obey. Moreover Hermia is old enough to make her own decisions as it concerns her love life. In conclusion, i think that theseus is wrong to say that hermia must obey her father as if he was "god"
ReplyDeleteFiona Liew (4) 3JT
I think Theseus is right to a certain extent only.
ReplyDeleteIn those times when Shakespeare had lived,the Elizabethan times,where women are thought to be weaker than men and should comply and obey the men's demands and words,thus resulting Shakespeare to write such reference to his story.
Theseus believe that Hermia should view her father as god,as Egeus had in some way,created her,because he had bought her into the world(her mother gave birth to her with Egeus and the mother's genes),thus Hermia is able to grow up and live and love.Thus,Theseus feels that Hermia should view her father as God,as literally,he created her like how God created the men and Hermia is his property to be use and dispose of.
Moreover,in those times,arranged marriage is popular,and children are proposed to the other half even maybe before they can remember things.Which is at a very young age.Children are supposed to go agianst their parents' decision.Thus Theseus said that Hermia should view Egueus as her god as she should not go against Egeus in the father's ideal marriage of Hermia and Demetrius.
However,I feel the Hermia should have her own rights to decide who she should live with for the rest of her life as her husband as her ideal view of her husband is naturally different from Egeus's ideal view of Hermia's Husband.Theseus is wrong in this sense of thinking Hermia should view her father as her god.Hermia should have a hand on her own destiny and decide what her destiny should turn out.
In conclusion,I think Thesues is right to think of Hermia should view her father as god,but only to a certain extent,as he can be understood as it is thought that females are the weaker gender in those times where Theseus and Shakespeare is living.
Lau Rui Han (3 Integrity)
In my opinion, I feel that Theseus is wrong to make such an assumption.
ReplyDeleteIf we were to look at the mindset and beliefs of the people during the Elizabethan times, they perceived "God" as an omnipotent being that created human beings or to generalise, life itself. God was perceived to be an entity of unfathomable power to accomplish a feat such as the creation of life and thus, commands the respect of the people, not because the people of that particular time period were just a bunch of idolatrous and mindless souls following a belief of "God" because they were told to, only to punish any iconoclasts or anyone who dares to defy the will of "God".
The key aspect "God" which commanded the respect and worship of the people wasn't the fact that "God" could create life, but the fact that "God" could create life because "God" possesed the innate ability to do so and thus the people perceived him to be the most powerful entity in the world. Theseus made a preposterous assumption that Egeus should be as God to Hermia, but Egeus is in no way comparable to a God with powers that mankind cannot comprehend. True Egeus did "create" Hermia by being responsible for her birth, but that doesn't completely account for Hermia to regard her Father as a God to be worshiped for Egeus lacks the qualities or more likey, the ability to command the same magnitude of respect and influence a "God" should have, not even for his own daughter. Egeus as a father should command some respect from his daughter but to the extent of worship is completely ridiculous even for the fact that women were regarded as an "inferior sex" during the Elizabethan time and should obey the man in the household be it the father,uncle or brother. The women were expected to follow to this tradition and if they failed to do so they would be punished but from my point of view, this only seems like the type of relationship between an owner and a property, which was also stated in the book that Hermia was the property of Egeus but not a type of God and worshipper relationship.
Furthermore, a "God" should be a benevolent figure in the minds of the people as it would hardly make any sense for anyone to worship a malevolent figure that could jolly well prove to be detrimental to their survival. Being a supposedly benevolent figure, I am sure "God" would not attempt to interfere with the lives of anyone or in this case, Hermia. Hermia has the right and adequate amount of intelligence to think for herself and who she really wanted to be her spouse, but Egeus is more inclined to resembling a devil rather than God in this case. No benevolent being would want to have things his way at the cost of the happiness of anyone, let alone his own daughter. The fact that Egeus wants to break up Lysander and Hermia by coercing Hermia to marry Demetrius or face death. Egeus' attempt to break up a loving couple and wanting to decide his daughter's future even to the cost of using her life to blackmail her hardly sums up that he is in anyway similiar to a benevolent "God" but more of a malevolent devil.
Hence, I would like to conclude and emphasise once again that Theseus was wrong to assume Egeus to be as a god to Hermia, not even metaphorically due to the fact that Egeus doesn't in anyway resemble a "God" wether be it in terms of potency or just qualities.
Jonathan Choo 3MD
In the past, Men were allowed to be domineering towards Women. Women were considered servants. Hermia's act of rebelling against her father to marry Lysander was probably considered an outrageous act that brought shame. After all, Egeus was Hermia's father and he brought her up. When Egeus wanted to punish Hermia, I think he just wanted to scare her into marrying Demetrius.
ReplyDeleteSo he wasnt such a self-centred man, as we can see that he relented at the end of the play and let Hermia wed Lysander as she wished.
However, I strongly feel that, Theseus has no right to say tat Hermia should treat her father like God, it would be considered worship. Mutual respect is the most important and not just one-sided listening. Hermia should also not be treated like a form of wax that her father can choose to destroy or leave as he pleases. She has the right to decide on her own future as every person does.
Perhaps as the period the Midsummer Night Dream took place in it would be more understandable than it is now. As the females were treated as the weaker sex. Unlike now, some women are more domineering and efficient than men and they are treated with proper respect.
Thus, given the circumstances than, I believe Theseus was right to a certain extent to request Hermia to treat her father like God.
Koh Han Lin (5)
3 Integrity
I feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteIn the Elizabethan era,women had little or no control at all over their destinies. Normally, it was a male who made decisions for an Elizabethan era women, without as much as a consultation with or affirmation from the women involved.
In MSND,as the story happened in the Elizabethan era, it is normal for a male to make decision for a female in the family like Egeus and Hermia. It is a custom of the society they are in. As women in this era is considered as the weaker sex, to Theseus, Egeus is just doing his job as a father. Theseus thinks as Egeus is the father of Hermia, Egeus would ,of course, choose a worthy man to take care of Hermia. The reason why Theseus uses the phrase“to you your father shoud be as a god" is to emphasise that Egeus being a father of Hermia,his decision should be respected.
On the other hand, I disagree with what Theseus had said as he did not really fully understand the situation before making a judgement. After just a brief conversation, he straight away concluded that Hermia should listen to her father because he is her parent and his decision should be respected as he is a male in the family. This judgement by Theseus become unfair to Hermia as she is a female and she is the daughter of Egeus. She had no right to comment on who she wants to wed but to listen to his father.
In my opinion, being a father, Egeus should not make the decision all by himself without paying any attention to Hermia's feeling or opinion. In fact, Hermia is the one who is going to get married and therefore she should be at least given a chance to choose who she really want to be with. For instance, I felt that even it is Egeus who objects, Hermia should fight for it as noone have the right to stop a person's happiness. From the Statement which made by Theseus, it shows that he did not judge Hermia's marriage fairly but according to the gender roles in that era.
In conclusion, I feels that Thesus is right to a certain extent as a daughter should listen to her father. However Egeus, being a father, should also take Hermia's decision and opinion to consideration as she has the right to choose who she wants to be with.
TzeFung_3JT
i do not agree to a certain extent with what Theseus had said. Even though Egeus was the one who brought Hermia up, took care of her by providing her with all her basic necessities, he have no rights to help Hermia decide her marriage and choose her life partner. If Egeus truly dotes on Hermia and sees her as his daughter, he should let her be happy and lead a blissful life with the person she truly loves. By making choices for her, it would only make matters worse.
ReplyDeleteHowever, theseus is also not wrong to say that "to you your father should be as god" because during the Elizabethan era, men are considered to be far more superior than women and women are supposed to serve the men and obey what they says. Hence, Hermia should also listen, respect her father and not rebel as it was her father who gave her life.
~ delyse tien, 3LY
I disagree that Theseus is right to Hermia, her father, Egeus should be regarded as a god.
ReplyDeleteGods are highly respected by people. They are always being perceived as the ones always making the right choices, doing the right things.
They are also known as the mighty one, that can overcomes obstacles that comes into his way.
However, in the context of the midsummer night dream , Egeus appeared to be a domineering father who does not give a hoot about how her daughter,
Hermia, felt but instead, he goes on headstrong and does what he thinks right and will be beneficial to him indirectly in the near future.
It was obvious that Hermia is in love with Lysander and had absolutely no thoughts of being the wife, spending the rest of her life with Demetrius.
However, in the Elizabethan time, with reference to the passage with relations to the Elizabethan time, If women were single,their fathers were expected to take care of them,and women always needed to be taken care of.
Egeus as her father has to take up the responsibility of taking care of her.Egues has been taking care and nurturing her for many many years,
that alone,deserves to be respected by Hermia and she actually has to obey Egeus as her father.As quoted for the book,Hermia was a property
to Egeus " As she is mine,I may dispose of her".As his property,Egeus should have the right to anything he wants to or for her.
As such,Egeus is compared to that of a god.He can do anything he wants to his daughter even forcing her into marriage.
. Therefore, Hermia has to make the choice of whether to marry Demetrius by listening to her father or to be dealed by the law legally;
to be a nun for life or to be killed. But by doing this, Egeus gain the disrespect of her daughter nor Lysander
as their feelings were not taken into consideration.
All in all, I think that Theseus is not right as Egeus does not even possess any characteristics of the mighty God.
He only insists that things to go his way and he never considered the feelings of her daughter when marriage was supposed to be a life-long issue.
MABEL :) (12)
3IT
I feel that Theseus' statement was right.
ReplyDeleteIn those times, fathers were the gods of the household. Their word was law and they had to respected. Though it does not extend to 'worshipping' like the term 'god' implies, it was used to show that Egeus had absolute control over Hermia's life whether she liked it or not. From the text, Egeus also stated that if she did not comply, he'd either have her killed or put in a nunnery.
Furthermore in those times, Athens was a largely male-dominated society. Women were expected to obey men without question. I believe Egeus had Hermia's best interests at heart when he forced the ultimatum of marriage to Demetrius or death upon Hermia. His hard-handedness can be translated to fatherly concern. Egeus disapproved of Lysander. He wanted Hermia to marry Demetrius as he was secure in the knowledge that Demetrius could provide Hermia with a comfortable life, and that she would be cared for after he was gone. Also, it was Egeus' duty to make sure that Hermia married well, so as to maintain the status of being high-born and attain the status of marriage, which was highly-coveted among young unmarried women. Women were considered the weaker sex then, and were believed to need the males of the family to provide and care for them.
Though some feel that Hermia should not be oppressed by her father and live her life according to him, especially such a topic as marriage, it would be good to keep in mind that in those times, arranged marriages were the norm, so Hermia should have expected her own to be the same. Back then, people usually married not for love but for familial connections and possibly, wealth.
Therefore, I agree with Theseus' statement that Egeus should be seen as a god to Hermia, no matter how incredulous and sexist it would seem now in modern society, because of the male-dominated society in Athens then.
Sheena, 3IT.
In our modern society, Theseus would be very much wrong indeed. Women are no longer treated as a lower-class citizen, rather an equal among men. Some women even hold ranks higher than that of men.
ReplyDeleteHowever, even back then, though women were still seen as simply objects, Theseus was being too over-the-top. Though it was more common for women to follow their men's orders, they should not treat the men as gods, for they are far from it. Women should have the right to choose what they want, as they are human too.
In this case, Hermia should have the right to choose her future, who she wants to marry. Her father Egeus should have understood this, and should have realized his pleading would do no good, and had just let Hermia choose on her own accord between Lysander and Demetrius.
- Anna S., 3IT
In my opinion, i think that theseus wrong in this case. That is because on should only listen to another person and treat the person like god when the person is telling you to do something that is right, good for you and is not biased. This theory applies to a father's words too. We cannot possible listen to our father's words blindly; if they are wrong, we should not listen. Therefore, i think that Theuseus is wrong in this case; hermia should not listen to her father's words in this case.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in the elizabethan era, the gender biasness was too, a big problem. men were considered the sole breadwinner, and women were regarded as the ''weaker'' sex, as they are considered weaker in both physically and mentally. therefore, Hermia is supposed to listen actually, according to their thinkings and believes.
Therefore, this shows that it is actually a parody, as many people now tell us to listen to what is right, and ignore what is wrong. however, in the elizabethan era, they are supposed to listen no matter what. this shows how fickle humans are.
Karyn ( 3LY )
I feel that Theseus was wrong with that statement.
ReplyDeleteHermia should have been given the choice of who she wanted to marry instead of being forced to marry Demetrius.
However, the flaw is not with Theseus. Theseus was living during the time where fathers would arrange marriages for their daughters.Therefore, Theseus had a reason for advising Hermia to treat her father like god.
Egeus too, does not have the qualities of a god. A god should be fair and just. Egeus, however, does not possess those qualities. He holds a biased view, and does not take into consideration the love Hermia has for Lysander. Therefore, I feel that Theseus was not right in that sentence.
By: Cedric Seah 3 LY
I feel that Theseus is right to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteTrue enough, women of that era had no rights to stand up for themselves, and they had to rely on men and obey them.
Also, Egeus is Hermai's father, hence he should have a say in her marriage.
Lim Joey (11) 3IT
However, i feel that it is inappropriate to refer to Egeus as Hermia's God. This is because Egeus is human, and is not as perfect and flawless as God Himself. He makes mistakes and wrong decision at times. In my opinion, Egeus is also unreasonable as Lysander and Demetrius are equal in standrads, however Egeus demands Hermia to marry Egeus without actually caring about her feelings. Therefore, he isnt impartial like God is.
By going against his own daughter's happiness, can egeus still be referred to as 'God'? I doubt so.
In my opinion, i think theseus is right to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteMan were the stronger sex in the society as compared to their female counterparts during that time. Thus, Theseus was only doing his duty as a duke to encourage Hermia to marry who her father wants her to marry, in this case, Demetrius. The father had all rights to control his daughters, for the belief that the girls were the weaker ones and needed to be taken care of. So, in return for this care, girls needed to respect their father's decision, even for marriage.
However, Theseus was also wrong in a way to let Egeus to have all control over Hermia. It is ultimately Hermia's decision in her marriage. Even though Hermia should respect Egeus, she need not treat him like a god as what is written in the play. This is because respect for a god is very different to that of a parent, and the two kinds of respect should not be compared to each other. also, Egeus might not be even fit to be a god, and it sounds rather incongruous and arrogant to call a mere mortal a god; a title of such high status. so, since Egeus is not a god, he should not expect his daughter to obey her in all aspects of life, like things as impoartant as marriage.
In conclusion, i feel that Theseus is right to an extent to want hermia to obey her father, as this was how society works at that time and it would be unlawful if hermia disobeyed. but, hermia should have the basic rights to choose her happiness and life partner, which in my opinion is out of her father's jurisdiction
ChinYingJie 3it
Theseus is right, yet he is also wrong. In the fourth commandment, it is stated, "Honour thy father and thy mother". Theseus declares that Hermia should obey her father and marry Demetrius. He is not wrong but we have to remember that the will of a father is not the divine will of God.
ReplyDeleteTheseus says, “to you, your father should be as a god.” In this statement, Theseus makes a comparison between God and Egeus. We all know that God is a perfect being that created the Universe, including human beings. And we know that human beings are sinful and not perfect. Yet, in Elizabethan society, is the males that suppresses the females. This leads us to think, are males created superior to their counterparts?
As Shao Bin mentioned, we have to understand the significance of this scene. I have to agree on his point but , we have to note that Theseus being right or wrong does have its significance in the play. Shakespeare wants us to think about the irony that can be derived from Theseus conclusion that in Hermia’s point of view, her father should be deemed as great as God, as perfect as God. Note that Theseus specifically mentions Hermia’s point of view, not anybody else’s.
The irony being the fact that Hermia has to regard Egeus as God. So, if Egeus claims the power of God, what is left for God himself?
From this we know that Elizabethan women have no decision making powers, and will have to listen to men. So, Shakespeare indirectly criticizes the society for not treating women fairly, which is the significance of this scene.
Therefore, we can conclude that the inclusion for this statement in the play, “to you, your father should be as a god.” Is not meant for us to think whether Theseus is right or wrong. But it is for us to think whether Elizabethan society is right or wrong.
But back to the question, Shakespeare obviously meant for Egeus to be wrong, as the message he wants to convey is that Elizabethan society should not condemn women more than it condemns men.
Walter Boo 3BN
Sorry to say that I have posted my comment wrongly under the Welcome section.
ReplyDeleteMy comments are as below:
As what the question said, Theseus mentioned to Hermia that "To you your father should be as a god".
I do not agree with that. Although a father is really someone that everyone should obey and respect, we still have our own rights on making decisions. In the play, Hermia should have her rights on choosing her boyfriend instead of being forced to marry Demetrius by her father, Egeus. Besides, a father cannot make any decision for a child as he may have some wrong judgement that may affect the future of his child. As a results, a father should be fully respect but not to follow totally what he says or orders.
Comments by NgBoonPin_3BN
Personally, I feel that Theseus is right, to a certain extent. In the Elizabethan era, women were very much disregarded and disrespected by the men. Men had the authority over women related to him. Therefore, obeying men was something that women were "born to do", since open defiance meant none other than punishment.
ReplyDeleteSince the rule at that time was to obey to the commands of men, there was nothing women could do. However, Egeus is way too flawed to be on par with a god, who is meant to be flawless, respectable, justified, powerful, and to be worshipped. Egeus possesses an unquantifiable number of negative character traits such as being possessive (over his daughter, Hermia), selfish, domineering and unfeeling. A clear example from the play is him forcing Hermia to marry someone (Demetrius) she does not love. Her love for Lysander is disallowed by Egeus, partly because of his bias towards Demetrius. His decision restricted Hermia and prevented Lysander’s courtship of her. Most importantly, this decision left an impact on Hermia; if she were to fail to obey her father, she would only have two choices: being confined to a nunnery for the rest of her life or to marry Demetrius. The extent of Egeus’ self-centredness is enough to give others the impression of him being a tyrant rather than a god.
Janice Lee (16)
3BN
I think that Theseus is wrong. Though Egeus is Hermia's father, the kind of respect a father received is different from what a god received. Hermia cannot see his own father as a god. If Hermia treats Egeus as a god, the bond and trust between father and daughter would be different and there will be a kind of gap between them, not the real, true understanding for each other.
ReplyDeleteTheseus has no rights to interfere Hermia's another family's problems. He should well off solving his own marriage problem then to make the decision for Hermia. He should not be the one to order Hermia to comply Egeus' wishes or treat his own father as a god.
We should decide our own happiness ourselves and not by others, neither the god can restrict true happiness, because the god or others would not understand the person's feelings and thoughts.
Therefore, I would say that Theseus is wrong.
~xinwei~
3 Justice